Interview
Maestro, the choice of a course on Villa-Lobos has surely been dictated by the 50th anniversary of the death of the Brazilian musician. Is there any other deeper meaning that pushed you to propose this theme?
The occasion was the coincidence of this anniversary of the composer with the release of my cd for Universal (in the “Spirito Gentil” series) that was dedicated to the complete works for guitar by Villa-Lobos.
The deeper meaning was instead linked to the formula of the course more than the theme of this year: the idea was to offer a possibility for investigating and working together with young musicians selected by myself, who I know and have esteemed for some time, and in turn, could generally be in tune with my approach: an attempt at the “global” and not fixated on technical aspect of the music. The two things fused well together: a musician like Villa-Lobos, for the human depth of his music, lends itself particularly well to be studied in a friendly, human and attentive context, attentive to this very “human” dimension of the music.
Why did you choose the “Scuola Grande San Filippo” as the place to carry out this work? A random meeting place?
Here, the fundamental role of friendship also played a role; in this case with Romano Valentini, director of the SGSF, who upon hearing me speak of this course project during a lunch among musician friends last summer, showed his interest to host it.
In thinking back to the work done, what judgments came about and what indications for the future might there be?
Paradoxically, the thing I’m most content with – certainly, also due to the nice work atmosphere that was established right away in the course – was the growth of my knowledge of the music that we deepened with the students. A little jokingly I say that I would like to make the recording now, after a year of work – because beautiful music, the more time is spent with it the more you discover, even in the moment of teaching it. I would like to continue this work next year, too, possibly on a different theme.
I was struck then by the intuitions that surfaced from the students, phrases that we also put up on the bulletin board. Of course, we know that the intuitions need to lead to work, but the thrill of discovery has a particular fascination: knowledge is always an event, someone said.
The choice of “container”, that is the SGSF, revealed itself to be particularly happy; a place where one works with passion, precision, and competence that certainly made the work of the course more pleasurable and profitable.
It’s a constant of your activity as teacher to involve the students in group work. What pushes you to do this? What is your concern? Could it be a didactic choice?
I don’t know if it’s a didactic choice; in the courses and masterclasses, I’ve always favored this condition because it was what I had seen when I was a student at the courses with Diaz, Ghiglia, Segovia… In doing it as a teacher, I realized that it was much more interesting and stimulating for me, because like this, further ideas come about compared to one-on-one lessons.
So, I also try to bring this experience in my work in the conservatory, at least in certain occasions. From the experience that I have, I believe that limiting the didactic experience to a series of “face-to-face” encounters with the student is less profitable.
What is the task of the musician today?
Maybe it’s what it’s always been: by nature, introduce the beauty of music to everyone.
Maybe today the guitar helps in this task because it’s an instrument very rich in potential with a noble and poetic sound, but at the same time it’s malleable in adapting to different musical languages and can be carried anywhere: so, it functions as a link to this encounter between people and the beauty of music even beyond traditional concert networks and official fields delegated to this.
I notice, thinking of when I play for friends, in schools or even when I take advantage of train rides to practice, that since people don’t really sing any more, hearing an “ordered” sound all of a sudden, in person, possibly while traveling where no one would expect it, generates an immediate liking. But even in “official” concerts I try to get at the “core” without incrustations or uncertainties that distract or create useless distances; and the core is the encounter, I would say “from heart to heart” between the music, whoever is playing it and whoever’s listening to it.
For you, what is the main meaning of the musical experience?
Sound is a mystery in itself; like everything that exists, besides – something that could not be there, instead is there. Not at random did a great educator, to give a concrete example of the fact that man doesn’t make himself, say that man is like a voice that expresses, for his own being, the person that emits it.
But when the sounds are ordered with art and become the profound and beautiful expression of the heart of man, of his history, of his culture, of what he tends to, they then become great road companions in the adventure of life, occasion of true knowledge, signs pointed towards the ideal of human progress.
In music, like in art in general, the relationship with a master remains fundamental. Does it only belong to the area of technique or does this bond also bear other fruits regarding other aspects of the life of who is involved in this relationship? Does it still make sense for you to speak today of masters?
Thinking back to what was certainly my most significant experience as a music student, that is, my relationship with Segovia, I would say that at a certain point the technical aspect is less important.
I have spoken and written much about this relationship that truly started when I turned to Segovia for a comparison regarding my attempt to gain a personal identification in music. More than someone to copy at that time, I found someone to identify with – in his tension towards beauty, in his respect for the text, in the inspiring and operative criteria of artistic activity. In this sense, maybe the word “master” is a little tight, and rather we’d need to use, with caution, the word, “father”; it’s this level, actually, in which the teacher participates in an experience of paternity in which something original is generated, because (it’s a paradox) son and not simple imitator, as Peguy would say. I read that Segovia said to a student, “You don’t have to be the second Segovia, but the first you.” It’s a very segovian phrase; it says a lot in a few words – I can’t manage this myself, yet!
However, it’s easier today for a young person to rely on an adult by asking him “what to do” instead of applying himself in making criteria his own; but going on like this, apart from an initial moment in which it’s necessary to imitate to learn, one doesn’t ever become an “adult,” not even artistically.
The difficulties of the present moment often obstruct the development of the life of a young musician, most of all influencing the enthusiasm that begins with the perception of having ‘an instrument’ in hand for self-expression. What do you think is fundamental to communicate to young musicians today?
As Don Abondio said, one can’t give courage…
In the difficulties that would bring one to renounce – or redimension, which is the same thing – a sense of ideals, it’s fundamental for each one of us to not be alone, but meet someone who doesn’t renounce this sense of ideals and its value. Then, we can want to be like this, too, because the “sacred fire,” as Segovia said, certainly can’t be given by the teacher to the student; it can only be testified.
In contemporary music, is there a question of meaning, a preoccupation to communicate meaning, or does music today speak a language all its own, indecipherable for most people and therefore useless for the human cause?
It would be an extremely long response, but I believe, summarizing, that the music of today isn’t condemned at all to such uselessness.
And one can’t permit oneself to ignore – or magically be removed – from the cultural and linguistic context that, for various reasons, “happened” in the 1900s and beyond, inevitably marked by the wounds of this such a dramatic time. And, as Stravinsky said, we can’t not be contemporary.
It’s true that maybe there’s a lot of “useless” contemporary music, but I could also speak of many composers and works in which I find this “usefulness,” and not only this: I find there’s something I couldn’t even find in the greatest masterpieces of the musical past. Not because these masterpieces of the past are of a lesser value compared to what’s written today, but because a cue, even if small, of the real beauty that happens in a work of art that takes modernity into consideration, testifies to me that even in the desert of today, flowers can appear. For this, I’m convinced of the importance of collaborating with many composers that write for me.
Then we need to find the right communicative forms: I don’t believe that anyone found the dissonances strange or inappropriate in Penderecki’s music in the soundtrack to the new film “Katyn” by Waida.
The context explained, actually I would say needed, music like this. This becomes a further responsibility of mine: insert music in a context that helps understanding it. And who knows if the Scuola Grande San Filippo can be of help in this…
Future projects?
I’ll surely carry on, or rather be carried by this “event” that has been and is the year of Villa-Lobos, the cd and the things that began in the past months. There could be a Brazilian tour materializing in a few months.
I would like to, then, keeping as a reference that alive, new and communicative music, bring the same impetus in the work on contemporary music, also ordering and making accessible the by now consistent repertoire that has been written and is being written for me. I feel the need to record, publish and teach the most significant products of this repertoire. I have some invitations regarding this, in particular from some conservatories, to present the fruits of this work, to which I would like to dedicate the next course at the SGSF.
I would also like to dedicate myself, using the same guidelines followed for the work on Villa-Lobos, to the works for guitar by Paganini, that I believe was ignored too much by guitarists and about which something new can possibly be said.
I believe that I won’t ever stop “studying” Segovia…
we’ll see.
(2009)
Maestro, the choice of a course on Villa-Lobos has surely been dictated by the 50th anniversary of the death of the Brazilian musician. Is there any other deeper meaning that pushed you to propose this theme?
The occasion was the coincidence of this anniversary of the composer with the release of my cd for Universal (in the “Spirito Gentil” series) that was dedicated to the complete works for guitar by Villa-Lobos.
The deeper meaning was instead linked to the formula of the course more than the theme of this year: the idea was to offer a possibility for investigating and working together with young musicians selected by myself, who I know and have esteemed for some time, and in turn, could generally be in tune with my approach: an attempt at the “global” and not fixated on technical aspect of the music. The two things fused well together: a musician like Villa-Lobos, for the human depth of his music, lends itself particularly well to be studied in a friendly, human and attentive context, attentive to this very “human” dimension of the music.
Why did you choose the “Scuola Grande San Filippo” as the place to carry out this work? A random meeting place?
Here, the fundamental role of friendship also played a role; in this case with Romano Valentini, director of the SGSF, who upon hearing me speak of this course project during a lunch among musician friends last summer, showed his interest to host it.
In thinking back to the work done, what judgments came about and what indications for the future might there be?
Paradoxically, the thing I’m most content with – certainly, also due to the nice work atmosphere that was established right away in the course – was the growth of my knowledge of the music that we deepened with the students. A little jokingly I say that I would like to make the recording now, after a year of work – because beautiful music, the more time is spent with it the more you discover, even in the moment of teaching it. I would like to continue this work next year, too, possibly on a different theme.
I was struck then by the intuitions that surfaced from the students, phrases that we also put up on the bulletin board. Of course, we know that the intuitions need to lead to work, but the thrill of discovery has a particular fascination: knowledge is always an event, someone said.
The choice of “container”, that is the SGSF, revealed itself to be particularly happy; a place where one works with passion, precision, and competence that certainly made the work of the course more pleasurable and profitable.
It’s a constant of your activity as teacher to involve the students in group work. What pushes you to do this? What is your concern? Could it be a didactic choice?
I don’t know if it’s a didactic choice; in the courses and masterclasses, I’ve always favored this condition because it was what I had seen when I was a student at the courses with Diaz, Ghiglia, Segovia… In doing it as a teacher, I realized that it was much more interesting and stimulating for me, because like this, further ideas come about compared to one-on-one lessons.
So, I also try to bring this experience in my work in the conservatory, at least in certain occasions. From the experience that I have, I believe that limiting the didactic experience to a series of “face-to-face” encounters with the student is less profitable.
What is the task of the musician today?
Maybe it’s what it’s always been: by nature, introduce the beauty of music to everyone.
Maybe today the guitar helps in this task because it’s an instrument very rich in potential with a noble and poetic sound, but at the same time it’s malleable in adapting to different musical languages and can be carried anywhere: so, it functions as a link to this encounter between people and the beauty of music even beyond traditional concert networks and official fields delegated to this.
I notice, thinking of when I play for friends, in schools or even when I take advantage of train rides to practice, that since people don’t really sing any more, hearing an “ordered” sound all of a sudden, in person, possibly while traveling where no one would expect it, generates an immediate liking. But even in “official” concerts I try to get at the “core” without incrustations or uncertainties that distract or create useless distances; and the core is the encounter, I would say “from heart to heart” between the music, whoever is playing it and whoever’s listening to it.
For you, what is the main meaning of the musical experience?
Sound is a mystery in itself; like everything that exists, besides – something that could not be there, instead is there. Not at random did a great educator, to give a concrete example of the fact that man doesn’t make himself, say that man is like a voice that expresses, for his own being, the person that emits it.
But when the sounds are ordered with art and become the profound and beautiful expression of the heart of man, of his history, of his culture, of what he tends to, they then become great road companions in the adventure of life, occasion of true knowledge, signs pointed towards the ideal of human progress.
In music, like in art in general, the relationship with a master remains fundamental. Does it only belong to the area of technique or does this bond also bear other fruits regarding other aspects of the life of who is involved in this relationship? Does it still make sense for you to speak today of masters?
Thinking back to what was certainly my most significant experience as a music student, that is, my relationship with Segovia, I would say that at a certain point the technical aspect is less important.
I have spoken and written much about this relationship that truly started when I turned to Segovia for a comparison regarding my attempt to gain a personal identification in music. More than someone to copy at that time, I found someone to identify with – in his tension towards beauty, in his respect for the text, in the inspiring and operative criteria of artistic activity. In this sense, maybe the word “master” is a little tight, and rather we’d need to use, with caution, the word, “father”; it’s this level, actually, in which the teacher participates in an experience of paternity in which something original is generated, because (it’s a paradox) son and not simple imitator, as Peguy would say. I read that Segovia said to a student, “You don’t have to be the second Segovia, but the first you.” It’s a very segovian phrase; it says a lot in a few words – I can’t manage this myself, yet!
However, it’s easier today for a young person to rely on an adult by asking him “what to do” instead of applying himself in making criteria his own; but going on like this, apart from an initial moment in which it’s necessary to imitate to learn, one doesn’t ever become an “adult,” not even artistically.
The difficulties of the present moment often obstruct the development of the life of a young musician, most of all influencing the enthusiasm that begins with the perception of having ‘an instrument’ in hand for self-expression. What do you think is fundamental to communicate to young musicians today?
As Don Abondio said, one can’t give courage…
In the difficulties that would bring one to renounce – or redimension, which is the same thing – a sense of ideals, it’s fundamental for each one of us to not be alone, but meet someone who doesn’t renounce this sense of ideals and its value. Then, we can want to be like this, too, because the “sacred fire,” as Segovia said, certainly can’t be given by the teacher to the student; it can only be testified.
In contemporary music, is there a question of meaning, a preoccupation to communicate meaning, or does music today speak a language all its own, indecipherable for most people and therefore useless for the human cause?
It would be an extremely long response, but I believe, summarizing, that the music of today isn’t condemned at all to such uselessness.
And one can’t permit oneself to ignore – or magically be removed – from the cultural and linguistic context that, for various reasons, “happened” in the 1900s and beyond, inevitably marked by the wounds of this such a dramatic time. And, as Stravinsky said, we can’t not be contemporary.
It’s true that maybe there’s a lot of “useless” contemporary music, but I could also speak of many composers and works in which I find this “usefulness,” and not only this: I find there’s something I couldn’t even find in the greatest masterpieces of the musical past. Not because these masterpieces of the past are of a lesser value compared to what’s written today, but because a cue, even if small, of the real beauty that happens in a work of art that takes modernity into consideration, testifies to me that even in the desert of today, flowers can appear. For this, I’m convinced of the importance of collaborating with many composers that write for me.
Then we need to find the right communicative forms: I don’t believe that anyone found the dissonances strange or inappropriate in Penderecki’s music in the soundtrack to the new film “Katyn” by Waida.
The context explained, actually I would say needed, music like this. This becomes a further responsibility of mine: insert music in a context that helps understanding it. And who knows if the Scuola Grande San Filippo can be of help in this…
Future projects?
I’ll surely carry on, or rather be carried by this “event” that has been and is the year of Villa-Lobos, the cd and the things that began in the past months. There could be a Brazilian tour materializing in a few months.
I would like to, then, keeping as a reference that alive, new and communicative music, bring the same impetus in the work on contemporary music, also ordering and making accessible the by now consistent repertoire that has been written and is being written for me. I feel the need to record, publish and teach the most significant products of this repertoire. I have some invitations regarding this, in particular from some conservatories, to present the fruits of this work, to which I would like to dedicate the next course at the SGSF.
I would also like to dedicate myself, using the same guidelines followed for the work on Villa-Lobos, to the works for guitar by Paganini, that I believe was ignored too much by guitarists and about which something new can possibly be said.
I believe that I won’t ever stop “studying” Segovia…
we’ll see.
(2009)